How old were you in 1968?
I was 9.
Where did you live?
On Brantford.
What was your life like before Martin Luther King was killed?
He came here because of the sanitation strike and most of the workers were black and they wanted equal rights and better pay. He came to try to calm the city down and to help point them in a good direction to get things going properly and then he was shot and killed. And... Um. So when the whole thing happened I don’t remember how long the strike was going on for, I do not remember that, but we were having to like take our trash to places to drop it off because no one was picking up stuff. As far as living in our neighborhood, things were very laid back and calm. We played a lot outdoors as kids and did not really worry about a lot of stuff. I think things back then were safer than they are today, as weird as that sounds. You know, we lived in the Jewish world, and there were a lot of Jews that own stores. And the Jewish people were the first people to give the blacks credit to purchase things. Like if they needed clothes, they could pay them out, but if they needed a kitchen set or appliances, or stuff like that. Back then things were very segregated and generally did not shop in the same stores but there was a place called specifically Black and White where everyone could shop there. It was owned by the Shainberg's which was a Jewish family and they gave credit to anybody and they did not care if people could pay out their stuff and it was very interesting.
What was life like after Martin Luther King was killed?
When MLK was killed, it was really tragic and the city called in the National Guard and there were curfews and after 7 PM at night you were not allowed to be out on the streets driving anywhere. If they found anyone out, they would arrest them. Your grandfather did not know anything that happened because the radio was out and his car was broken. Back then there were no cellphones or anything and he went to work that day and was out fixing things. Like the day after it happened or two days after it happened they called for a curfew in the city because people were going nuts. It was like really scary and he was out fixing some things at someones house and they said to him, “You have to leave and go home because there is a curfew and we do not want you arrested and he was driving home but got a flat tire. So he was stuck on the side of the road and the police came and said, “Why are you out?” and he said, “Well, I did not know there was a curfew until I was at someone’s house fixing things and they told me. I was just working. “ The police helped him change his tire and after, the police man who helped him, gave him his name and his badge number. He told him if anyone else stopped him, he should say that there was a certain policeman who helped him change his tire and he was on the way home.
Personally, what was your life like after his death?
You know, this whole thing happened in Ferguson, Missouri and I was watching it on TV and when they came down with the verdict that they were not going to prosecute the policeman, I could not take my eyes off of it because it brought back memories of the riots after Martin Luther King was killed. After he was killed, originally the sanitation workers were protesting very peacefully and it was relatively calm but it turned from nonviolent to very violent and people starting rioting. They got together and they started chanting in the streets, holding signs up and screaming and yelling and then it went to breaking store windows and looting. And I’m watching this thing with Ferguson and I said “This is just like Martin Luther King.” I remember it. It was a long time ago, 45- 46 years ago but I remember it. A lot of the stores were burned down and stuff. It is kind of very weird because there they burned down their own neighborhood in Ferguson with the people that they did business with. In Memphis they were burning down their own neighborhoods, rioting, and looting, but most of the stores belonged to Jews where they were actually allowed to go to. I kind of feel like the Jews in general came to Memphis they were treated badly because they were Jews and antisemitism and racism are very similar, if not the same. But it is just against different people. Zaide got on a bus with Bubbe and he sat Bubbe down next to a white woman and then he went to the back of the bus and sat next to a black lady but she ran away and started screaming. He just looked at people like people. They were not different because they were different colors, they were just people. And he sat down next to her because he did not know you could not do that, but it was kind of really weird because I feel like the Jewish people really helped blacks who were treated unequally but a lot of the Jews stores were torched and burnt down.
What was their purpose in burning down the stores?
Anger. It was just pure, you know, they were mad. Martin Luther King came here to help them and to settle the riots and help make peace in the community and they just wanted equal pay and to be treated the same as white people and they felt like they were not getting those rights. This is what I remember as a 9 year old. I am not looking any of this up but this is what I remember. He came here to help them then he was killed. He was killed by a white man. If he was killed by a black man, I don’t know if that would have happened, but they got angry and mad and here this was a leader who they were looking up to and they did not know how to control their anger and rage so they just went after---. Why did they do it Ferguson just now? I mean there is no rimor reason to it, it does not even make sense but it is just pure rage. Rage. And it was out of control and they called in a national guard and there were tanks, troops, trucks, and people dressed in these drab military uniforms and it was very scary. We used to not lock our doors at night but people became afraid so they started locking their doors and we were not able to go play at night. It did not last for a long time, but you know, it kind of just changed things because people started to get scared. I kind of feel like, I know that equal rights are important and people should have them, but I kind fo feel like the rage was out of control and was really scary.
Do you think they burnt down Jewish stores because they thought we were responsible for it or just because we are common victims?
They were in their own neighborhoods and other neighborhoods doing whatever they could until the national guards stopped everything. Eventually the sanitation protest was resolved but I kind of feel like the way things were handled and dealt with did not bring the community together and the city together. I feel like it made even a bigger divide with the way things were handled. I feel like it really did not resolve the way it really needed to be. I feel like it made even a bigger separation.
Do you remember the actual day he was killed?
Um, I saw it on TV. They came on the news with special reports and stuff and it was all over the newspaper, so yeah. But I mean, back then the media was not like it is today. It was a lot of word of mouth, a lot of radio. Not even all cars had radio back then.
I know you said you thought his goal divided the community even more but do you think he intentions were right?
Um, his intentions were right, and he gave this huge speech, and I really do think his intentions were right. I feel the response to his death was exactly the opposite of what he wanted. I feel like his dreams were shattered by what happened and it was due to a lot of the response of the black people.They were in rage. He really wanted peace and wanted people to act together equally and he wanted equal rights. There was a lot of that after and I think we have come a long way since then in certain respects, but I do think that some of his dreams have not been fulfilled. I think there is a way to go but I do not think it is just between black and white, I think it is between everybody all over the world. If you look at it, you have these issues. In America it might be one way, but you get it all over the world with different groups of people, different religions, different nationalities, different everything. And I feel like his dream still has not been fulfilled in the broader picture.
Do you think that devoting his life in attempt to solve this issue improved anything?
I think there were some improvements. I think that there are lots of steps being made over so many years that are trying to help resolve it but I think a lot of this issues still have not been resolved. You know, if you look what goes on in the black communities there are a lot of welltodo blacks than there were previously but then theres a lot more poor blacks who are still not living the dream and who are not able to live the dream. There is a lot of black on black violence and crime and I really feel like in that respect, he must be very disappointed. He did not want any of that. He wanted people to take care of each other. In the broader picture he wanted equality but he also wanted people to treat each other properly. You know, there is still a long way to go and there are people who have become very successful. We have a black president and things have changed. There are a lot of black senators and governors. Things have grown a lot in that direction but I feel like we are not anywhere near what he wanted.
You talked a lot about african americans in response to the shooting but what changes do you think were made in regard to white people?
I think it helped a little bit. We have a long way to go and it is a process. I kind of believe that if he had not been assassinated things probably would have happened faster because he was a good person and helped make changes. I am not quite sure that everyone in his family is directly following in his footsteps and there are a lot of personal issues that they have but he was a great man. I wish he had not been killed because he would have changed things for the better, and I think we still have a long way to go. We are not there yet.